JayTalk

jaytalk6
===

[00:00:00] Welcome back to Jay talk. I'm Jay Ramsey and we're here with Nick, from the Nick drop what's up people. So we're doing our follow up session. We're gonna be talking about suicide again. Our previous one, we talked about the American foundation for suicide prevention. Yeah. Cam. She was awesome.

She was really great. Yeah. She was gave us a lot of good information. Yes. Learned some things you know, and I think hopefully you did as well. Yeah. Hopefully everybody listen to that. If you didn't go back and listen to it. It's really good. Yes. I agree. I agree. So today we're gonna be talking a little bit about my situation and Andrew, who was my son who did commit suicide.

As Cammy said, we probably should stop saying commit, you know? And so he Yeah, that was interesting to me. Yeah, it was it's per it makes perfect sense. Makes perfect sense. Cuz you're right. They didn't commit. [00:01:00] Not like you commit a murder, you commit a crime. Like she said, it shouldn't be said that way.

It should be said yes. How did she say I, I can't remember. Yeah. It performed suicide or, you know yes, exactly. They didn't. Yeah. I don't remember exactly how she put it either, but it was very interesting. Yeah. Cuz you don't commit it. That's a yeah. Yeah. You don't commit a heart attack you. Yeah. You don't commit cancer.

Yes you, yeah. That's why you shouldn't say the same thing because it is a chemical in dependency dependency or a chemical. Yeah. It's about illness in your system, a mental illness, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you know, that was an interesting, but you know, we get in the habit of saying it that way.

So you know, I'll probably make that mistake. Because you have to mentally train yourself to use other words, and we're gonna start doing that today. Yes we are. Absolutely. And that's why I pointed it out because I wanted to, to kind of E even try to catch myself. So just to give you a little [00:02:00] history my son was 14 years old when this all happened, so he barely good, good looking kid.

A lot of struggles in school. But how do I put this? Wasn't all because of him, he didn't start these troubles. Some of them were other people instigating problems. So he was getting bullied at school in a, you know, in seventh and eighth grade, he was being bullied a lot in ninth grade, not so much Bullying can come in so many different forms and fashions.

So it's kind of, you have to really watch how you wanted to find that. I think you could say he was still being bullied, just not in the same way as he was in, in seventh and eighth grade. And I don't get into that a little bit. Okay. So leading up to the situation. [00:03:00] So Andrew, you know, got into a fight at school.

Okay. Okay. So the kid essentially tried to stab Andrew with a pencil. Really? Yeah. Police said, well, you know, Andrew didn't get hurt and it's not like the guy was using a weapon. And I think we can all disagree with that point. After watching one episode of you know, who is at the Keanna Reeves movie, that's real popular right now.

I'm lost. See, now, now you got me caught in a rock and a hard place with this. Yep. So let me look it up real quick. Keanu Reeves movies. Not John wick. No, it's John wick. Oh, okay. John wick literally used a pencil to kill three people. Oh, that's right. That's right. You know? So when the police officer said, well, he wasn't using a weapon, anything you use technically can, can be considered [00:04:00] an assault weapon.

If it can do harm. Right. If this guy had stabbed Andrew in the eye, they would've changed their attitude about what happened. But because Andrew had blocked the guy from stabbing him, they didn't consider it a weapon. Right. So Andrew had jumped up on the table, kicked the guy in the face because when somebody goes to stab you sometimes instincts take over, you lose all train of thought.

You just react. Right. And you know, it's anger take O takes over whatever. So he did, he jumped up on the table. He kicked the guy in the face, Andrew being the, what I call the softhearted person that he is actually then jumped down on the ground, grabbed the guy up, apologized and helped him to his feet.

Really? Yes. So they continued to play cards. He literally felt so bad for what he did, but he lost control because the guy tried to stab him. Right. You know, it was a [00:05:00] stupid dispute as, as what I would call it. Kids got angry over some card game. Something happened. The kid tried to stab Andrew, probably wasn't thinking about it.

Andrew, of course reacts. Wasn't thinking about it. And you know what? It just got blown up. Right. Crazy thing is. The other kid didn't say anything, nobody reported it. A student that saw the event that wasn't even involved wasn't even at the table reported to the teachers. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And then, so the vice principal had it out for Andrew and had charges pressed and they never pushed charges against the other kid though, because of course, you know, it's not a weapon, it's not a weapon.

Are you kidding me? Oh, that's, that's what they said. Yes. Okay. Which is [00:06:00] really stupid in my opinion, because anything can be used for a weapon. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, half the movies that are coming out now that are like John w that Jason S Statham, he's always finding things to use, to fight back the five guys that are trying to kick, you know, that kind of thing.

So yeah, exactly thing. Exactly and for, for police officer to literally tell me that it was kind of ridiculous. Thankfully I did have a friend in law enforcement, you know, and this had been going on for two months. And my friend from law enforcement, he said, you need to go to the the police department talked to a police officer and he said, you need to tell him this.

And he told me exactly what to say. And when I said that it changed the whole dynamic of what was being done and what was [00:07:00] being investigated. Okay. And the key point there was, is I told him or he told me to say, the kid acted with intent. He had intent on causing harm. Whether he did or not, he didn't, he may not have gotten a chance, but he had intent.

Right. And he had a weapon, whether you consider a pencil or not, he had a weapon. So he had intent and he had a weapon and that changes the whole scheme of everything. So they had to reopen

the investigation into the assistant principal, then that targeted Andrew. So, but he, this is what we were going through at this time. And, and I told him, I said, look, I've got your back. I know you told me, you told them he didn't lie when they asked him what he did. He told him, yeah. I kicked him in the face.

You know, it's not like he was [00:08:00] hiding anything. Right. So, you know, he, he genuinely felt bad, but for them to come out and want to prosecute him for assault, As a 14 year old kid, because somebody tried to stab him and he kicked, he fought back. He defended himself. Yes. Regardless of the situation, he defended himself.

Exactly. Exactly. They may not look at it that way, but honestly, if somebody tried to stab me, I probably would've myself, you know, maybe even more violently than kicking the kid to the face. But yeah, because even if it's a pencil, you're probably not focused on the fact that that is, it's something that's sharp.

Exactly. You know? Exactly. It doesn't matter. Yes. Cause if he stabs him in, you know, if he stabs him in the right blood vessel, he stabs him in the eye, stabs him the neck. I mean, the point is he stabs him anywhere. He hits a blood vessel, he's bleeding. And then, you know, what are [00:09:00] they, what are they gonna say then?

Right. You know, it's like, oh, your son was involved in a fight. He got stabbed. Okay. Is he in the hospital? What's the deal, you know? And so, you know, that's the whole thing. So

Excuse me, but, so that's what we were dealing with. That was so back to the intent, you yes. And so they're back to the investigations back into play. Yes. And so, you know, we, we moved on from that that was still in play, but you know, they hadn't dropped the charges yet. So I, I told Andrew, just, just relax.

I said, I've got your back. We will take care of this. I said, you know, we're not gonna, we're gonna sweat this. And so I thought, you know, me personally, based on what I was doing to help him out and everything like that, that this had gotten better. And everything was fine. I have no clue if it had any factor on anything.

I honestly don't me and my mom have talked about it numerous [00:10:00] times for a lot of different reasons. And I'll get into those later. So leading up to that's, that's kinda one of the situations that kinda led up to it. You know, for, he's had a hard time with me and my ex-wife getting divorced. Right. So, you know, that's a factor majored on a lot of kids.

Yes, yes. A major on a lot of kids, you know, it can be talked about that. What are the factors, what are the things that lead up to it? And what is that kind of that one thing that kind of broke it, I guess, is, you know how she said it, you know, it's on Jenga, you know, the pieces just keep piling on and then piling on.

And at what point does it collapse. Right. And so, you know, I think that was a great analogy that she talked about. It's, it's, it's almost like we talk about, you know, it came to a head and at what point did it break? You know, it's that, that's a great analogy for that because they have all these things that just kind of build up.

He was [00:11:00] unhappy with this, but he was happy about this, you know, and he, at one time wanted to go live with his mom and, and he couldn't she wasn't in a good situation where she could, she could let him do that. Right. And he, he was always kind of upset about that. There was, you know, I was a single father at a time at the time.

And so my oldest daughter would watch the two youngest whenever they would come home. Right. And so I think sometimes, you know, he would, I guess, try to take it upon himself to be a bigger brother, but sometimes, maybe it was a little rough. And so, you know, of course then she would get onto him or I would get onto him.

And so he felt like he was being picked on. Right. And we did talk about that once. I actually did sit him down and I told him, I said, look, I'm not picking on you. I said, I'm Gabe's dad, you know, I'm here to help out. Just let it be. Don't let it get you upset. And [00:12:00] so it, it got a little better after that.

So, but you know, for the longest time he honestly thought we were picking on him. So those are things, those are factors. Those are things that lead up to what happened. And, you know, did we ever think that this was going to be the result? No. I mean, how, how do you, you don't yeah, you absolutely don't. No.

And so that was kind of, the hard part is, is because, you know, this was, we, I talked to my kids and, you know, I sat down and I talked to my kids, you know, I wanted to have that open communication with them. And I thought I did, you know, I would teach them about things. I actually taught my kids about guns, how to clean a gun, how to point a gun, how to handle a gun, how to respect a weapon, exactly how to respect it.

And that's the key, you know, I, I taught them about that now. I hadn't taken 'em to a gun range or let 'em shoot the gun, but I did [00:13:00] teach them how to respect and what it was about. So, you know, I, I was all about teaching my kids, the, the different things and different things different ways of life. So we always talked you know, days before this all happened, it he had told me he'd gotten a new girlfriend, you know, and I'm like, oh, this is really cool.

And he's like, you know, it's right before Valentine's day, you know, and he gotten a new girlfriend like, oh, this is awesome. You know? And so I'm thinking, you know, this is great, you know, he's happy. Good. Everything's great. You know, the unfortunate part. This all took place two days after Valentine's day, he met the, he got the girlfriend two days after.

No. Oh no. That's when he that's, whenever he killed himself was okay. Two days after Valentine's day. [00:14:00] Oh, okay. And so that we will discuss the side effects of that and how that affects my dating in another episode. Okay. But that just adds, you know hard piece because, oh, I do remember you talking about Valentine's day when we had a one of, in one of our shows, a matter of fact.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway, so he talked about, you know, he he had a new girlfriend and it seemed very happy and, and I think that's where, you know, it resonated with me when somebody made that comment about they're always ha really happy right before it. Because they know the pain's going away. So how long, when did he find the girlfriend?

Was it a couple weeks prior? Three days. Four days before. So four days before Valentine's day, two days before Valentine's day. Okay. Okay, go ahead. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you know, and that was, that was the hard part for me is because, you know, we talk and, you know, we, [00:15:00] he had just turned 14 and on his 14th birthday, what restaurant does he want to go to?

He wants to go to Hooters. Right. You know? And I'm like, at a boy. Yeah. at a boy. So yeah, it was kind of crazy, but you know what? I love my boy. And so I took him to Hooters. You know, most people would be like, how dare you, whatever. But, you know, I taught my kid respect for women and how to treat them. So I knew.

it wasn't gonna be a big deal. Right. You know, and I knew, you know, he had always been bullied in seventh and eighth grade. So I kind of, for me, I was like, you know what, let me take you it, this is, you know, a little dad and son time, you know, just me and him. That was it right. There was nobody else. I didn't take my other two boys.

I didn't take my daughter. Just me, just you and him, me and Andrew. So, [00:16:00] you know, in my impression, I, honestly, I had no clue. I really did. I don't see how he could have, but, you know, yeah. I mean, it it's. Yeah. I knew we was unhappy at times. I mean, at one time he wanted to run away and he did actually run away twice.

But part of that was when he couldn't go live with his mom. And so there was, he just felt like, you know we were picking on it at home and so he did run away. But I thought we had addressed that. And actually there had been many events after that, that kind of led me to believe that we were back on the road track because you know, for here in Houston, for those that are listening we have Ren Fest and Renest last from beginning of October till the end of November.

Right. And so the Saturday after the Saturday, after Thanksgiving is [00:17:00] Celtic Christmas and me and my two youngest, Andrew and Gabe both went to Celtic Christmas and we had the most wonderful time. Wow, nice. You know, and so we ha I thought was one of those kind of moments where we really connected, you know, I guess is the best way to describe it.

Right. And so, you know, when you have those events, It makes you feel like, okay, we're finally getting back to we're back on the right track. It, things are getting back to normal, you know? And so we were, you know, we started working out into December, January new's resolution. My son's a big, was a big workout buff.

And so, you know what, I started doing the workouts with him. And so we actually picked up insanity. Oh, good. Just jump right off the cliff there. Didn't you? Yeah, I know we did good tonight. Yes. I saw that for about five minutes and I'm like no, actually I, I, I will [00:18:00] say we could talk about that on a different episode, but I actually enjoyed it.

Wow, good. Yeah. So, but the point was we did it together and, you know, three nights a week, four nights a week, we were doing this together. So I really felt like we had some positive things going good. Right. You know? And so that's why this kind of blinded me Bleeding up all of these things, you know, I really, Andrew always had an anger problem, but he had a good heart sort of like, you know, he hurts someone, he jumps down, he picks 'em up off the floor.

Right. And he, he apologizes, you know, continues to play card games that a normal person doesn't do that normal person get jumps down and keeps kicking right now, the person with a good heart's like, oh crap. I can't believe I did that. I'm sorry. He had a good heart. Right. So leading up, and this is gonna be the hard part. So we're leading up. And [00:19:00] my, my daughter and my son tell me later that the night before he asked them to get a video on YouTube. And so, you know, sometimes you just get crazy things are going on. You're like, you know, Hey, I'm busy, I'm working at school or I'm working on whatever.

Right. Right. You know, so they didn't look at the video. Well, when they looked at the video later, it was talking about suicide. And so, you know, it's and as I told them, it is not their fault. It is, you know, I told my kids every day, it's not your fault. You know, it's not your fault. You know, they're gonna feel that that's, that's exactly the immediate or immediate response.

Exactly. 100% of the people, whether you're a narcissist or an empath, or whether you're whatever, right. Your immediate response is, this is my fault and it's not, and it absolutely is not exactly. And so I told my kids that every day for probably three months, it's not your fault. [00:20:00] I wanted her to know it's not your fault.

You know, whether they wanted to hear me to hear say it, it's not your fault. I don't care. It's not your fault. And, you know, they could say, well, but you, no, it's not your fault. , you know, sometimes even if you recognize the signs, it may not change anything. Right. I agree. Because if their intent it's, you know, they're gonna find a way and you hope that you would be able to stop them.

But I, I have heard of cases where it just, it didn't matter if they're in that path. It's it's well, we, she did cam did talk about, there were some incidence, but that was a whole different kind of a story. But for the most part, everything that I've ever heard up to this point is one way or another. Yeah.

They have their mindset. Yes, exactly. Unless they [00:21:00] can get, you know, you can get 'em into a, a facility that protects them, you know, and that's gonna be your only chance on that situation. So we're gonna get a little, a little more serious, I guess we've already been pretty serious, but we're gonna also get a little graphic.

So if, if you don't think you can handle this you can fast forward this for a few minutes. So for me it was Friday I had, Gabe was at daycare. I called Andrew and I said, Hey, what do you want for dinner? No big deal. Our normal routine every day. I, as soon as I get off work, I call the kids, what do you want for dinner?

Right. And that's our routine, you know, and that way, if, if I'm too tired to cook or they are in the mood for something specific, you know, we just, we figure it out, you know, get a plan, get it done. Exactly. So if I need to pick up something on the way home, [00:22:00] that's what we do. So that was our normal routine.

I had had Rudy's for lunch, which I couldn't eat for a year afterwards. Wow. You know, cuz it's just anything that happens, you just kind of that day is, is just pretty much ruined for you because anything that you do will flag the memory of that day. Right. And so, yeah, I didn't have Rudy for a year.

But so, you know, I probably talked to him four to four 30 ish, right. I walked in the door five o'clock, five 15, sorry. And not uncommon. Or when we get home, Katie was at work. Junior was at work. It's not uncommon for Andrew to be playing in his room or playing in the backyard, throwing the football around.

And Gabe is with you and Gabe is with me. Okay. Okay. So we walk in the door. Of course I yell [00:23:00] Andrew. And he didn't answer. So I'm thinking he's, he's in the backyard, you know, not uncommon, not uncommon for him to just be in the backyard, laying down, resting from being hot from running around all normal thing.

Okay. So that's just leading up to this. Well, you also had a trampoline back there that he would spend a lot of time on after school too, right? Yes. Yes. So, you know, we had, we had a lot of different things and he just loved to play in the backyard. He loved to be outside. He loved to be in the sun. He that's just the kind of kid he was now.

He loved his video games, but boy, that boy really love to be outside. Right. So for me it was, you know, pretty normal. Okay. For me to come home and him to be in the backyard. I didn't see any of the signs. Okay. Right. I walked back to my room, put my backpack down, walked back up to the front. [00:24:00] Andrew's not anywhere. I'm like, okay, no big deal. So me and Gabe said, we're gonna go in the backyard and look for him. We walked back there. Of course Andrew's laying down on the ground. He's probably 10 feet away from my back bathroom window.

And you know, so I'm walking over, Hey, Andrew, what's going on? And you know, he is not responding. And so I don't know why, but I, I didn't see it. I, I just, so I'm getting closer and closer and at about five feet, I see it. And he's laying on the ground. Playing sideways and from his bottom lip up is gone.

So it, it is, I mean, [00:25:00] there's nothing there. There's, it's, it's gone. So most disturbing part of that is not that I saw my son that way, but as Gabe is three feet behind me and he sees it too.

Wow.

You know, that's a, that's a hard thing on a parent, but can you imagine being eight years old and seeing, I mean, no offense, but the best way you can say it is, is seeing the face of your brother gone. Right. And no, and being old enough to. What's going on. Yeah. Being old enough to know what's going on. That just makes it, yeah.

So, yeah. So it's, you know, front of his, like I said, bottom lip up is gone. There's nothing there. It you know, of course when I see that Gabe sees it at this point, he's screaming, you know, and the [00:26:00] first thing outta my mouth is Gabe, get inside, get inside, get inside. Right. You know, so I'm screaming at Gabe get inside because I know at this point he's already trauma.

Yes. You know, he's, he's already falling and you know, I am too. And you know, people say, you know, you can, you can go into shock. And I probably wasn't some kind of shock. But at the end of the day, I think what really did it for me is I had to be strong for my eight year old. Yes. Had to be strong for Gabe.

I called 9 1 1 of course, they came out you know, there were so many things I didn't see that I should have saw so many things I could have done. I just was in shock. I just, it's hard to explain. So cops came out, of course, you know, they do their normal routine. You know, [00:27:00] but before they even show up, I'd already called, you know, my ex-wife and my son and my daughter told 'em they needed to leave work right now.

So it was you know, so, but you know, the, it just was unreal, I guess, is the best way I can play. You know, as harsh, I guess, as it is to say.

I'm glad nobody else in my family saw it because that was a sight. I don't know if everyone could have handled true, you know, mentally, emotionally, not everybody would be able to. I mean, Gabe still to the day, you know, it's, it's hard on him. So you know let's see. So I did have a friend who is a Harris county sheriff.

And I called [00:28:00] him, he came over immediately and kind of worked as a liaison between know the family and the constables who were here. It was really nice about it. There was a note I did not get to read it to this day. I still haven't reread it. I don't know if I ever can. The Harris county Sheriff's department has it and I can request a copy of it.

I just don't know if I'm emotionally ready for that. Right. So, but the nice thing was, is he did share with me that in the note it said, you know to my family and friends, I love you. This is not because of you. I'm sorry. And that this was because of school. Wow. Yeah. I've never heard that. I've never heard you talk about that.

So yeah, it's been very, it's it's been very tough. And so [00:29:00] you know, I talked about a couple of times going up to the school. The problem is, is I don't know that I could do it without being an angry adult, an angry father.

Makes perfect sense. Yeah. I mean, cuz I probably would. I mean, because of that, from what is said, even though I hadn't read the note, but I know that much about it and because of what went on in school. Yeah. I'd be fucking pissed. Yeah. There's no way you can deal with those, especially when you have, I mean you just lost your child emotion and they're gonna give you resistance.

Yes. And so they're not gonna be, you're not gonna be civil, they're not gonna be civil. Right. It's not gonna go anywhere. And I know that sounds really harsh, but the reality, you know, let's, let's just be honest. The reality of it was is I was never gonna get anywhere with them. They would probably rather bury it and not oh, [00:30:00] absolutely.

You know, so but yeah, so, you know, my buddy told, you know, basically gave me the gist of that. Essentially, you know, I, I have guns and I had them locked up. So I wasn't an irresponsible, at least in my opinion, I didn't consider myself an irresponsible gun owner. Correct. You know, so I did not notice things whenever I came into the house, but essentially after all was said and done they showed me that he had test fired the gun in the house.

And so I had to you know, I had he shot it from his bedroom all the way across the house. So it went through his door, through my living room, broke the tile by above my fireplace. It ricocheted off the refrigerator and it, it shot into the wall. And it's actually still there in the. So [00:31:00] you know, we had somebody come in and do some patchwork on it.

You know, he pretty much, he just did some seals or some putty on it. Right. You know, sanded it off. Yeah. And just basic. And I had to buy a new door you know, which was challenging, but you know, not, not as challenging as ever everything else, but just, you know, the grand scheme of things, it was small.

But so yeah, he test shot the gun. The way he got the gun was he took my gun case out into the garage and he actually took an ax and chopped open the gun case. And so, you know, it had a lock, everything on it and he just, he chopped until he got it open. That's just the gist of it. And so we're not here to discuss guns.

And, you know, whether you should have him or not, or a different show, but, you know, it's, it is what it [00:32:00] is, you know? And so he he took a 30, 30 test test shot. It, it would work, you know, what, in the backyard and he pulled the trigger. And so you know, that night we went somewhere else to stay. We just couldn't stay in the, the house.

But yeah, it's it, it, for three days, every time I close my eyes, that's all, I'd see. There's nothing else. I mean, it's burned into my eyes. So it was extremely difficult. So you know, you surround yourself with. You try to get friends. It's it's never, never easy, especially when it's your own child.

Absolutely. So

trying to think about

how to best express this [00:33:00] for me I have a tendency to bury my emotions and deal with them in increments. Guess that's people say it's not necessarily the best way to go. I I have to be strong for my kids, so I have to be there for my kids and I love them more than anything. That was my attitude about everything.

I remember when I came to the funeral, we were standing there kind of talking and I looked at you and I said, when you're ready, it's time for you to grieve. I don't care what time it is. Pick up the phone and I will come. And you said to me, I don't have time to do that right now. I've gotta worry about my kids.

Yeah. I'll never forget that. Yeah. And I'm like, well, I'm there when it's time. Oh, I know. I know. But I was, [00:34:00] that was when you said that I was like, man, man, that's, that's just amazing. So go, I didn't mean to, I was just wanted to tell you that story, cuz that was it very, it touched my heart so bad that like you need, that's something that's gonna, it's a necessity at this point.

Yes. I, I can't afford to lose. Because how are my kids gonna keep it together? Absolutely good point. You know, and, and I know that sounds really crazy considering I just lost my son. But it was, it's the reality, I guess, more than anything. Right. You know, I have three other kids here who rely on me. I, I had custody of the kids, so, you know, I, they needed me and, and I just can't afford to lose it.

So for me, that was the most important thing. Especially Gabe considering he was eight, right. He just went through, you know, he needed someone. So let's, you know, that the next couple of days [00:35:00] we're quite hard you know, getting everything together, trying to plan a funeral and things like that family would come over.

People would bring the normal food stuff, you know, it's all, all the normal, anytime there's a funeral. You got the normal stuff, but I, I think the biggest thing is, is people are at a loss of what to say, and it is okay to just say, I'm here and that's it. Sometimes that's all somebody needs. Well, there's always been a big discussion about walking up to somebody that's had a devastating loss and say, I'm sorry for your loss.

Yes. And everybody that I've ever talked to or ever been around and including in myself and those things, that to me, and from what everybody says is, that's almost the worst thing to say these days is I'm sorry for your loss. Yeah, I know. [00:36:00] You know, it I went to a funeral of a coworker and I just walked up to her and she started tearing up and I couldn't say it.

I, I gave her a hug. We grabbed, she grabbed my hand and squeezed it. She cleaned off her eyes and we turned and walked away. We didn't say a word. And she came up to me like two months later. And she said, thank you for not saying, I'm sorry for your loss. Sorry for your loss. Cuz it drove her CR it, it got to that point where you're, you're so distraught, so devastated because of the situation that's happened.

And then to hear things repetitively like that. Yeah. Just, it just gets under your skin, you know? Yeah. And it's tough for everybody. No, it is. It is. Especially the person that's probably grieving and suffering the most. Yeah, that is a tough one. I never thought of that. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah.

That's you know, it's just, I, I can't, I've never said [00:37:00] that I'm here for you. You know, that's a better one. When we had a one of coworkers pass away, In the office, you know, a couple years ago and his, both his son's work there. And I remember walking up to him and kind of did, you know, a man handshake, you know, shoulder bump hug.

Right. And I just looked at him. I said, I love you guys. I'm here for you. And that was all. And they even told me that afterward, they were like, Nick, that was really cool. Yeah. And I'm like, and I don't know if that's me being selfish is saying it, cuz I just have a hard time saying that I feel, I feel extremely sorry for their loss.

I hate that they're going through that. But nowadays that's just, I don't know. It's just not the right words to say, well, it's almost become like the emotional detached saying, oh yeah. You know, it's not a genuine because everybody says it. Yeah. It's the emotional detached saying. Everybody says it. So when you hear it a million times, it's like, [00:38:00] yeah.

But do they really mean it? Right. Good point. So when somebody actually takes the time to say, Hey, I'm here for you. You know, it's a little different it's, it's, you know, they're expressing the genuine of, of how they feel, you know? So that's a good point. I like that. I'm glad you shared that. Now I have to remember to start doing that myself.

Cause it's too easy. We just get into these robot modes. When somebody passes away, we just, we want to be there for 'em. We want to go, we want to help them with their pain, but that, that doesn't really seem to help that portion of it. No, it doesn't look me. I'll look you in the eye and say, I'm here for you.

I love your brother with all my heart. I'm here for you. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. And you know that if it's three o'clock in the morning and you're struggling not to be able to sleep or you're have, you know, that grief is starting to kick. I'm in the truck I'm here. Right. You know? Right. [00:39:00] So, yeah. And no, I had, there were actually quite a few people who actually did the, the, the same thing you did.

They, you know, if I ever needed it, they, I knew I could call 'em. I don't care what time or where it is anytime. Right. So, and just for those listening I do do grieving. So twice a year visit Andrew at the cemetery. Once on the day he died and once on his birthday and I always walk up and the kids visit the tombstone, they say their business.

I walk away, let, 'em have a few minutes. And then I tell 'em okay, it's my turn. You know, I need you to go to the car. This is my moment. Right. So I take five minutes, maybe a little longer. I talk to Andrew and I cry. You know, it's just, I let my emotions out. And that's where the pain comes. Out. So, you know, just for those who think that, you know, you're gonna lose your [00:40:00] mind because you're not dealing with your emotions.

No, I deal with them. I'm just dealing with them a little, little bit more, I guess, controlled fashion. And maybe you can say I'm a control freak, but I look at it as I gotta be strong for my kids in front of my kids. And yeah, I don't it's, I don't think it's a control freak thing at all. You have to control that emotion because of your kids.

Yes. Because of the ones that are here and going through that pain with you. Yes. Yes. And I have to be strong for them when they have to deal with their emotions and be able to help them navigate that best way to put it, navigate that pain, you know, and it, it is not easy. So you know, just a couple of you know, so we get up to the funeral.

You know, of course we, we. Barry Andrew on a Friday following Friday, as a matter of fact couple of interesting points you know, of course he had, one of the [00:41:00] kids from school came actually numerous kids from the school came and one of them in specifically was in the ROTC program. And he was talking with Andrew about Andrew joining the ROTC program.

And he had told me that, you know, I feel bad that Andrew never got to be my brother. And so, you know, they when they were actually taking him and putting the casket ground, you know, him and his two friends were in full fatigues and they gave him the salute. So I got a picture of that from. My cousin, who's an 18 year veteran.

He took some pictures and actually provided it. Nice. Yeah, it was very nice. One of the other hard things are, I don't know if you'd say it's hard, but it was very interesting. So I told you that [00:42:00] Ian Gabe were the only two people to see Andrew. Right. Okay. My brother, I, we standing there. We were, you know, so it was an extremely rainy day.

It was the, the, we, the, the ground was so soggy. So of course, you know, they have the casket and a vault is what they bury him in. Right. And they put the vault in first and then they lower the casket into it and then put the lid on. So, because it was so wet, they hadn't put the vault in the ground. So they had literally, we took the casket and we.

Literally took it off the truck. We wheeled it over onto this little I guess stand that they set it up a stand and then essentially a forklift came over, lifted him up, put him in the vault and then they picked up the vault and actually took it over to the grave site [00:43:00] and put it in ground. Right. But we couldn't be like 15 feet away from it because the ground was so slippery.

It would cause slip in. Right. So I remember standing with my brother there and he looks at me and he says, it doesn't seem real, does it. And I remember my response being, this is probably more real for me than anyone else, because I had seen him dead. There was no doubt in my mind. Wow. And so I think that was one of my.

Harder moments, I guess at the funeral. I mean, granted, there were moments when we were doing the, the, the funeral service where, you know, of course there's a lot of, you know, of pain and, and you're crying at that point. But I think that was the, when he made that comment and, and it was, it was [00:44:00] complete innocent comment.

I mean, I don't, I'm not upset my brother for making the comment. Right. No, no understand, you know, but, but it's that more than anything, it's the kind of, as a matter of fact type situations, right? It's like he's really dead. Right. You know, and, and I know he is really dead, so I will tell you for six months I had a two foot, a three foot poster above my TV of.

and my daughter one time made the comment. Why, why do you have that up there? Dad? Why don't you have a picture of the entire family? And I remember, I remember my response to her was, is so I, when I look at Andrew, see that face instead of this face I saw on the ground. I wanna, I want to close my eyes and see Andrew for what he was, [00:45:00] right.

Not for what I found. And I think that was one of the hardest things for me for a long time is to be able to my eyes and actually see Andrew. Right. So I'm gonna go back to what Cammy said. Post funeral told my kids let's talk. So we sat down and talked and the next day let's. So for, for months, every time I got a, you know, we would talk, just talk it out.

You know, I forced my kids to talk about it. I, I didn't want them to bottle up the emotions. So in a way, I dealt with my emotions as well, by talking with them. Right. So it was a combination. I also felt it would be easier for me [00:46:00] in the future. If I could just go ahead and get it over with, it's almost, I know this sounds really horrible.

It's a horrible analogy, but it's like gripping off a bandaid, you know, you know, the pain's there, right? You, you just gotta deal with it. Right. And so, you know, my kids the same way, you know, the pain's gonna be there. You just have to deal with it. You know, I will tell you to this day Gabe. Sleeps with me.

He's 11 years old and he still has nightmares. He has probably slept in his own bed, maybe three months out of the entire time since Andrew's been dead. Right. And that's over three years. So he, it's a very hard emotional thing. Now, granted, if he sleeps in my bed, most of the time he sleeps just fine.

But if he sleeps in his bed, he literally, he just has nightmares. He has[00:47:00] I don't know what you would call it, but disconnection, you know, he, he went on vacation this year for one night. He stayed in these bunk beds. He thought were cool at three o'clock. He comes in, he said, dad, I can't sleep. I've been in there, sleep this awake this whole time.

And I'm like, why didn't you come in here earlier? And he said, I was trying. And I'm like, dude, no, just wow, come to bed. So he got in bed with me. And so, you know, it, it's a, it's a very hard thing. Now I will say this. The principal over at maple Brook elementary Castel time is her last name. And can't remember her, the counselor's name.

I'll remember it later, but they did wonderful things with, with Gabe. They gave him the extra attention every year when he starts school, I visit with a teacher, let them know the situation. Right. Just so they know that, you know, there are going to be times when Gabe [00:48:00] is not, he's gonna be emotionally, emotionally vulnerable, I guess, is the best way to put it.

Right. And so they need to have some understanding towards that. And I don't think that's going to. Better as he gets older because the kids just get meaner as they get older. Yes they do. And so that's just gonna be more and more challenging start junior high this year. And I'm kind of a little worried about that, so we'll see how it goes.

So but you know, ever since you talked about what you said at a funeral, you said to I've had two of my cousins who have lost kids, not took suicide thankfully. Right. I say that it's never good. They lost their children, but I just, suicide's no closure. I, I don't know I'll ever have closure that, so I'm gonna be emotionally [00:49:00] scarred for the rest of my life.

But I literally, when I. To see them right before the funeral I walked up. And the first thing I said is it's like, look, I said, I'm one of the few people that can understand what you're going through, right. Call me if you need to talk. And it's not necessarily a club you wanna be a member of, but it's one of the clubs that you losing a child is a very difficult thing.

Even without suicide. It is the most difficult. There's no doubt about that. Right? Losing a child is the worst thing to have to a parent period. And then at this way, too, but also go back to when we were talking to Cammy about when you said the club, those are the people [00:50:00] that you would feel comfortable talking to that have gone through what you have gone through.

Even if it isn't in exact same. No. Yeah, exactly. You still lost kids no matter what, that's still unbelievably devastating beyond compare. So yeah. You would be that person to reach out to help them. Yeah. Which is amazing. Yes. So now I will tell you it's, it's hard. They talk about all the emotions that happen afterwards.

You've got the blame game, the denial, you know, you've got all those things. That's, that's part of the reason why, you know, I was, I don't know about say prepared, I guess I've just got a good head on my shoulder. Not saying that it's always a good thing. Just, you know, I, I told my kids, you know, let's talk about it.

Let's talk about it. Let's talk about it. It's not your fault. It's not your fault. It's not your fault. I kept repeating those words for months. [00:51:00] Because I wanted them to get past that emotional stage. They're always going to have that grieving. There's always going to be the if he was here type thing, but if we can get past this blame game, this, you know, it's my fault.

If we can get past the anger I think that's a big factor too, you know? I do, I, I meant to share something earlier. And I got sidetracked. Me and my mom used to talk about the reason why Andrew committed suicide. And remember I told you, you had a good heart, right? I remember my mom one time told me, she said, I wonder sometimes.

If Andrew took his, his own life because he didn't wanna take [00:52:00] somebody else's.

And so Nick Nick's here looking at me kind of strange. I'm shocked that I did. I wouldn't have thought that. Okay. Well, Nick, he, he, I told you he has a good heart. And if, if he's really, really angry that kids at school, what do normal kids do? Wow. I'm not even on that thought process. Yeah. I mean, they would, normal kids or other kids would probably just go to school and shoot up the school, which happens all the time.

Right. True. So, and you know, me and my mom have talked about this numerous times that sometimes she actually wonders if Andrew just couldn't bring himself to kill other people, but in order to end the pain. Killed himself. Wow. I, would've never, never entertained that. [00:53:00] I know. And I guess it is something that you should entertain.

I mean, if that was the case and he was being bullied to that point yeah. Or felt like it, and yeah. His emotions were getting, yeah, I can a factor. Yes. You know, we will never know, but you know, when you try to analyze the situation, you know, you just, you want answers. And so, you know, of course, family always talks about all the different things that are going on.

Of course, my mom knows intimately all the things that are going on. So that was, you know, that was kind of her, honestly, that was her take on it. I, I don't, I don't know if it was an accurate take, but it was a very interesting take situ. So, so let me ask you this. Has anybody read the note? Nobody, nobody, nobody, other than the police, whatever.

Right? Other than the police. And [00:54:00] 1, 1, 1 of my friends who is, you know, a police officer, he's a sheriff. So just me thinking out loud right now, what are the chances of the closure being in that? Well, my friend did give me the gist of what the note said. So when it, it, it, if it called out a person, I don't know if I wanna know.

Oh, good point, because then I'd have anger towards a person extremely. Yes. And that wouldn't be good, you know, because I want to keep a focus level head for my other kids. I don't want to be focused on. And leave your kids fatherless. Exactly. And be in prison. Exactly. And it's a hard thing to do. Sometimes you have to think about what you've got left over the revenge.

Absolutely. What's here [00:55:00] right now. Exactly. You have to heal. What's here right now. Now I wanna back up a little bit real quick, cuz I don't wanna lose my train of thought, but a little bit ago you said I didn't see the signs and I immediately wanted to jump at you and say, Jay, it's not your fault. Right?

It is not your fault. Right. And I know you're focus so much on healing, your children, that you're not focused on yourself. And brother, I love you with all my heart and it's not your fault. Trust me. I know. Okay. Yeah. I had to say that. I appreciate that. But I had to say that because you were saying, I didn't see.

I'm sitting here. Unfortunately, the people on the podcast can't see it, but I could see your face. Right. And I saw the look on your face and I'm like, oh my God, dude. It's not your fault. Yeah. You know? Oh, I know. I know. It's I talk about it in a way [00:56:00] to say that. No matter how hard sometimes you can't see the sign as much as you think you could, but I mean, ultimately you're right.

It's not my fault. I'm one person and you know, it, I guess the best way I can put it. And, and I say this to a lot of people and I know it's kind of cold in a way, but it's, it's the best I've got for now, but it is what it is, you know? Cause how else am I gonna. It sucks. Yeah, it really does, but it is, it is what it is.

And, you know, I need to, it's not my fault. I'm not to blame, you know, and neither any of my kids [00:57:00] and I can't just live my life in the past. True. I need to move forward. Yes you do. You know, and yeah. Sometimes it's a little hard to do, but that's just the nature of what it is. So yeah. You know, I have, you know, I have a shelf on my wall that has got two pictures of Andrew and it's got some memorabilia from things that Andrew did and things that, you know, he used to use football and, you know, that's just, I keep it there and it's, he will always be part of our family.

I have four children, three of them, maybe only three living. I have four children. Absolutely. You have to tell the football. Now you said football, you have to tell the football story. Okay. So I don't know if you know this story, but essentially this happened on Friday, Friday of like five 15, you know, it's insane.

Of course I'm [00:58:00] staying in a hotel room in middle of the night. I, I, I can't sleep, you know, I close my eyes. What do I see? Right. You know, I'm not sleep. I'm, you know, it's a, it's just a hard situation. I have a friend who actually knew Brian Cushing, so had played golf with him once or twice, twice.

I don't remember exactly. So I I texted him and I said, Hey, I need a favor. And I said, my son, you know, died tonight. Do you see if Brian will autograph football? So he can, I can bury it with him. Don't ask me why it's a Friday night tonight. It happened and I don't know why, but you know, my son loved football and that was, that was what was on my mind.

Right. It's just, it is what it is, you know, so it's kind of crazy, but it is what it is. Of course, the next morning, you know, he text me back and he said, look, I'll reach out to him. [00:59:00] See what he'll do, you know, not a big deal. It was a long shot situation, right? So only middle of the week. So just to give you an idea, okay, this is the ironic, this is how human Brian Kushing is.

My son died four days before Brian Kushing got released from the Tex. Okay. As a player. Right? So he, he was likely a, a year away from the Texans before he got hired back on as a coach. So this was like four days before he got released as a player. So this is kind of the key, not only autographed a football, but a personalized it, and he didn't sign one, but he signed two.

So he literally put two Andrew and Jay. [01:00:00] I can't remember everything that was said, but essentially he wrote both our names. And then he literally signed both footballs. His number Houston Texans. Exactly. Both footballs were mirrored. I mean, exactly a light with, you know, I mean, it's, he literally signed 'em both at the same time.

So I buried one with the, with my son. And Brandon, I didn't put it in the casket. I had the, you know, had somebody else do it, but the other one is sitting up on the shelf. So, you know, that's why I said for me, Brian Cushing will always have a soft spot, you know? So we talked about that in the last, you know, in the sports episode.

Right. But you know, he didn't have to do that. That's something he could have been like, you know, I don't wanna do that. I don't want him no, he, you know, he, he went above and beyond. He didn't sign one football, he signed two, [01:01:00] you know, and he signed them to both of us. Right. So I have a second football that now all my kids know when I pass away that football is gonna get buried with me.

Right. So that connection to Andrew will always be there for me, even in the afterlife. That is very cool. Yeah. That was a great, great, great story. Thanks. So. But it's, it's a hard,

it's a hard thing to do. And it's been very hard to share this with you tonight. I've been mentally preparing myself for about a week and I haven't slept hardly at all. Let's just be honest. I I've been really, cuz I knew it was gonna be very hard and I'm really holding back a lot of emotions just so we can get podcast, but it it's, you know, I don't know how else to describe it.

It's just, you know, it is, [01:02:00] it is what it is. Well, I know that you talking about it for several weeks and then you got real intent with it about two weeks ago and over the last week you're prepped and ready to worry and, and you know, I could heal and see and fill those emotions and you're like, Nick, you need to come up here and bring your, your equipment up here.

Cuz we're gonna do this. We were actually gonna have another. Guest on the show, that's gone through some similar situations, but unfortunately she couldn't make it. But again, it's not your fault, brother. I appreciate that. And I'm very proud of you for being able to get that and talk about it and make it feel good.

And one of the whole reasons I know you're doing this is not, is first to help that weight off your chest a little bit, cuz it does help to talk about it. But hopefully we can get tons of people to listen to this. And maybe if we can just help, you know, even if it's one person yeah. [01:03:00] Hundreds of people, it was worth taking the time for.

Yeah. And I really proud of you and I really appreciate that and I love you with all my heart for doing this. I love you too, man. I love you too. So and I agree with you 100%. It's it was very hard, but I agree. We, if we can save one life. You know, and if, if somebody can walk away from this and they look at their friend that who just lost someone from Lewis' suicide and they can say, it's not your fault, it's not your fault.

Absolutely. You know, it it's, you just gotta remember that. It it's really tough, but it's not your fault. So you know, in 2019, I did the out of the dark walk out of the darkness, walk with the American foundation for suicide prevention. I will be doing it again this year in 2021. It's in November.

It's in November. Yep. And you know, it's, I said it last podcast. It's, it's not necessarily [01:04:00] a I know this sounds horrible, but it's not a fundraiser that you want to be a member of. Right. And I know that sounds really weird because, you know, you just, nobody wants to be a experienced suicide in their family.

Right. And so this is actually the second family member that has committed suicide. For me that I remember my cousin also did it when he was 20, after his girlfriend broke up. I, I didn't know that. Yeah. So, and the crazy thing my friend who was the sheriff, right. He was a green police officer and he was the first officer on the scene when that happened.

You're kidding. Yeah. Wow. So that was a little bit of a good awakening, I guess, more than anything that was the [01:05:00] shock to the system for him. Cuz he had never seen anything like that. Right. Same situation. My cousin had taken a gun and, you know, shot himself. Wow. And so for him to be there for that, when my cousin did it, when he was 20.

So you get, my cousin was only two years, three years younger than me. So I mean, that was when I was 23 years. So I mean that's 25 years ago. Right. You know, and then for him to turn around and be there at my son's event. And he sees that too, it's this, you know, it's a little crazy. That is, that is coincidental like crazy.

Well, no, it's not coincidental. I'm I called him and asked him to come well, but I'm saying, yeah. What are the odds of being still in your life, around your life with all that? You know what I'm saying? Oh, that's fair point. You know, know I'm saying, yeah, I understand what you're saying. I mean, one of the odds 25 years ago, his life didn't take him somewhere else to a police [01:06:00] officer in Florida, you know, right.

Somewhere outta state where he wouldn't been around and. It wouldn't have been that much communication. That's where I'm in my mind. The, that's why I'm saying the coincidence yes. Comes in and, and you're right. It's not a coincidence, but, but by the same token, you make a valid point, but I mean, that's still, you know, it's as police officers, you know, it's, it's hard on them because they have to deal with these situations and we'll, you know, we'll talk about that on another podcast, but it it's craziness.

I remember my aunt came to the funeral and he was there and we did not tell her that he was the first officer on the scene. Why we just didn't want open that open. That wound, I guess, is the best way to put it smart. Yeah. Consider it, you know, tactful, you can name all the different whatever.

Yeah. So, you know, that's a little bit about, you know, what happened with. [01:07:00] You know my situation. I've had a lot of friends who've helped me out over the years. Of course, Nick always helped me out over the years. He's always been there. We had a, I had a great friend, so Tom Davis, I'm gonna give a little shout out to Tom Davis.

Tom Davis was Andrew's best friend's father. So Andrew's best friend's named Ripkin. He graduated high school this year. Nice. When I saw the graduation picture, it was a better sweet, I guess, because you know, you look at that and you're like, that could have been Andrew. Right. You know? And so that was a little tough, but the reason I wanted to give a shout out to Tom is, as Tom was, was there too, he helped me out a.

Being that, you know, Ripkin was, you know, Andrew's best friend. I remember mate and a kid. Yeah. Great, great, great kid. Yeah. Great kid. Yes. Well, Tom died last year. Oh no. Yeah. [01:08:00] So you know, I, I'm just gonna, I that's, part of the reason I wanted to give a shout out to him is, is, you know, I couldn't, I honestly couldn't handle it.

So when I saw the announcement on Facebook, I, I did not respond. Right. How do you, how do you emotionally talk to a family that just lost their father and who just, you know, lost their best friend two years before? Yeah. You know, and, and hon honestly, I, I still haven't. I mean, I, I see him on Facebook. I'll hit like on posts sometimes.

Right. Stuff like that. But. I find it. I still haven't reached out and I don't know what to say. No. And I know that sounds really horrible, but I just wanted to say, well, no, you don't want to you're you don't know how to make that first step. I, I get that. Yeah. That's the hardest part. Yeah. Is, [01:09:00] is coming up with a way to make that first step, because it's gonna be emotional for the both of you.

Yes. Yeah. And for his wife. Absolutely. Yeah. So maybe, I don't know. Yeah. That's why I've kind of kept my distance and it's been very hard and it's, that's part of the other reason why it's been, I've been really focused on getting this podcast done is because, you know, I'm dealing with all these emotions from him.

He would've graduated high school this year, so it's, there's a lot of emotions right. Going on right now. So I think this a, as you said, it, this is good therapy. Yes. It, it really is, you know, And so, like you said, it's not my fault. It is not your fault. So I don't have anything I'm gonna share on that anymore.

I mean, I, I think we've covered a lot and probably a little more than some people will be able to handle. But even still, I hope they listen [01:10:00] just for the fact that if they ever get put in a situation, maybe it'll turn on a light bulb or give you a little bit more hesitation saying, Hey, this person seems like they need help.

Maybe I need to look deeper. Yes. I agree. I agree. So if that happens, then we we've done. Yes. You've done what you did and I got to produce it. Yeah. So, you know, well, and you know, it's you talk about that? Cammy said that people commit suicide because of other families members did and they don't know how to handle it.

And so maybe talking about how I handled it will help somebody in the future. Absolutely. Yeah. Help them, help them deal with it. And that's the key, that's it? Absolutely. So I don't have anything else to share with you guys. Nick, anything from you? I'm good guys. Listen to the story, help anybody out.

Follow [01:11:00] us. We'll continue to do some other things and talk about it. We're gonna give you some stuff on the post that you can reach out to Cammi at the a F S P did I do that right? Yes. Does I keep clubbing those numbers? Right. Dot org.org. So, and if you just don't know where to go or what to do, find somebody, anybody.

Yes. Find Jay and I, we probably got our cell phones on Facebook or, you know, just call us in the middle of the night. We'll do something. Anything, sir, we will help. Yes, sir. I agree. So, you know, reach out to someone. Do something, but you know, we, we know this is a little bit serious subject and you know, some of you enjoyed our fun topics, but you know, I think this was we, we wanted to talk about what's what's going on in the real world, and this is a real world topic, you know, and it's very important.

It's very important. So in a way from all of us at Jay talk [01:12:00] and the Nick drop, I hope you have a good day.